Jess Wisloski writes in the Brooklyn Papers: “Atlantic Yards is stretching out — and into Park Slope … at a City Council hearing last Thursday … Forest City Ratner said the developer was considering plans to greatly increase the amount of housing on the site, both by scaling back the amount of office and retail space and by expanding the site westward — jumping over Flatbush Avenue to include plots now occupied by Modell’s and PC Richard & Son.”
“The presentation … indicated that the developer might increase the number of housing units from 4,500 to … possibly 7,300, and include a 187,000-square-foot hotel in a 620-foot tower at the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush…”
Read more…
Ratner wants to get all the land, plus what he already has covered by placeholders at Modells/PC Richards and Atlantic Center, then depending on what works best based on the market, he’ll build whatever the F he wants. Wants he gets the land, i repeat, he’ll build whatever the F he wants.
this is seriously out of control
Can’t anyone on earth get this freaking scamming, lying scumbag out of Brooklyn before he destroys it ?
We must keep trying. btw, at noon on Saturday Gimp-ford Miller is coming out to Marty’s place to endorse this monstrosity at a noontime press conference.
come out on Tuesday:
On Tuesday, June 7th there will be a march from Brooklyn Borough Hall to a Rally at City Hall
The March and Rally are Against Bloomberg’s Sweetheart Development Deals Around the City,
Against Bruce Ratner’s Proposed 17 High Rises and Arena in Brooklyn
And FOR Community First! Development
Start Gathering at Brooklyn Borough Hall at 4:30 (start time 5pm) or be at the Southern Tip of City Hall Park by 6:15
Borough Hall: 209 Joralemon Street (2/3/4/5/A/C/F/M/R to Borough Hall & Court Street)
City Hall (2/3 to Park Place, 4/5/N/R/W to City Hall)
The rally and march is tackling the citywide epidemic of backroom sweetheart development deals, led by the Bloomberg Administration which ignore the the needs, hopes and desires of communities throughout the city. Instead these sweetheart deals are trampling on and destroying communities, spending massive amounts of public dollars, and primarily benefitting developers. We will focus on Ratner’s destructive plans in Prospect Heights, as an egregious example of this.
WHEN DO OUR COMMUNITIES START GETTING SWEETHEART DEALS!?
Please make every effort to join your fellow New Yorkers at this demonstration and please copy and paste this announcement to email to your list of friends, colleagues and anyone else! If you would like to download a flier about this event, you can do so here:
http://www.dddb.net/060705Rally.pdf
Thank You!
Rally Sponsored by:
Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn Coalition:
Atlantic Avenue Betterment Association • Boerum Hill For Organic Development • Brooklyn Bears Community Garden • Brooklyn Vision • Cambridge Place Action Coalition • Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn • East Pacific Block Association • Fans For Fair Play • Fort Greene Association • Friends and Residents of Greater Gowanus • Kings County Greens • New York Preservation Alliance • North Brooklyn Greens • Park Slope Greens • Revel Arts • South Portland Block Association • Times Up! • Warren St. Marks Community Garden
–
Councilman Charles Barron • Councilwoman Letitia James • State Senator Velmanette Montgomery • Honorable Major R. Owens, Member, U.S. House of Representatives • Chris Owens, Candidate for Congress • Gloria Mattera, Candidate for Brooklyn Borough President • Norman Siegel, Candidate for Public Advocate of New York City, Civil Rights Attorney
–
Eric Adams, Co-Founder, 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care • Bob Law, Community Activist • Brooklyn Greens • Committee for Environmentally Sound Development • Creative Industries Coalition • The Fifth Avenue Committee • Friends of Red Hook • NYCBaketball.com • Park Slope Neighbors • Pratt Area Community Council • Prospect Heights Action Coalition • Williamsburg Warriors
–
The Downtown Brooklyn Leadership Coalition:
Black Veterans for Social Justice • Rev. Clinton Miller of Brown Memorial Baptist Church • Rev. Mark V.C. Taylor of Church of the Open Door • Rev. Dennis Dillon of Brooklyn Christian Center • Rev. Patrick Perrin of Hanson Place Central United Methodist Church • Rev. Anthony L. Trufant of Emmanuel Baptist Church • Rev. David Dyson of Lafayette Avenue Presbyterian Church • Rev. Dr. Daniel Meeter of Old First Reformed Church
Wheres Jack K? C’mon even you have to admit this is over the top?
over the top? c’mon just let Bruce knock down whatever he wants and build highrises. I mean with his track record we should trust he knows best.
In all fairness, do you guys really like the Model’s/PC Richards buildings?
While I’m not necessarily supporting a 620 ft hotel, I wouldn’t mind seeing something a little nicer on that site. Those have to be some of the plainest buildings in the areas, I think we deserve better than a couple of big boxes in an area that is such a central artery in brooklyn.
Also, we do need more hotels.
I dont disagree that those building arent up to par with the surroundings, nor the Atlantic center mall. However whoever builds whatever on those sites should not only pay for it themselves but should also pay land tax (it is valuable), niether of which Ratner is going to do.
Ratner BUILT THOSE SHITTY MODELS/PC RICHARDS BUILDINGS! There’s a surprise, huh? And you think he’s going to put something beautiful there now instead? I swear, there’s a collective self-delusion going on that’s astounding, and Brooklyn is going to be paying for it, including you and your taxes, for the next 200 years.
exactly. Ratner should never be allowed to build anything again just based on those painted cinderblocks.
give that property to someone else. he doesn’t deserve to keep it, and since he doesn’t pay taxes on that land why should he keep it. a 620 foot hotel doesn’t make it better.
SJE, collective self-delusion, absolutely.
You are crazy, this is the best thing to happen to Brooykln in DECADES
please explain how its the best thing to happen to Brooklyn in decades. until you explain that, and prove it, its very hot air.
oh, and I’d say its probably one of the worst things to happenn to Brooklyn in its history.
it makes downtown brooklyn a destination as it was in the past and turns what is now a shit hole in to a state of the art arena and housing.
uhm, this proposed project is in Prospect Heights.
downtown Brooklyn was already atrociously rezoned, though no construction has started there yet. so this has nothing to do with downtown brooklyn. though the way marty, bruce, bloomberg et al. would have it we’ll soon start calling Bed Stuy downtown Brooklyn or Downtown Manhattan.
which Shit Hole precisely are you referring to? Fort Greene? Prospect Heights? Boerum Hill? Clinton Hill? or your potty mouth?
Im talking about the abondoned buildings and railroad tracks where the arena will be built
build over the rail yards. fine. but Ratner wants much more. those so called abandoned buildings happen to have people living in them. the few that ARE “abandonded” have not been redeveloped because the city has not been willing to rezone to residential. the “shithole” you happen to speak of, happens to be home to hundreds.
Most of whom have already sold to ratner willingly, making a huge profit for themselves.
actually, most of whom are low-income tenants, who are being evicted.
the abandoned industrial buildings of which there truely only one (the Ward Baking Co. building) are all historic structures.
In Newark/Orange New Jersery, a similar Ward Building was turned into affordable housing and a community center. The building on Pacific is really a developer’s dream but no one will touch it because of political implications. The other buildings on Pacific are Spalding Building, a luxury condo and the Atlantic Arts Building, a luxury building whose tenants abandoned it out of fear and Ratner’s payoffs, save for Daniel Goldstein. All of these buildings represent an important industrial past of Bklyn.
and are certainly not blight.
Who cares about buildings that represent Brooklyn’s “indutsrial” past? It’s time to move towards the future. A hotel would be a welcome addition to Brooklyn so that the Marriott will no longer have a monopoly in the borough.
“Who cares about buildings that represent Brooklyn’s ‘indutsrial’ past?”
Sorry but your comment is assinine, you should care about brooklyns past, that what most people come here to see. If you didnt know, most familys can trace their history back to brooklyn. If you dont care about Brooklyns past you are seriously uninformed and/or under educated.
Rick
yeah but nobody comes to see those busted buildings and i don’t see anybody lining up to restore them. we can remember brooklyns past fine with out them.
again. the city didn’t rezone for residential. wouldn’t.
know they are giving that zoning to ratner any which way he wants it. besides, MANY people do visit brooklyn to see its historical treasures including these.
“i don’t see anybody lining up to restore them”
-Maybe you havent thought to walk a few block from there to see many of the browstones that have been renovated to the past glory. Some of the buildings have been renovated, or are you blind. If the zoning was approved they would all be renovated and filled up up with people that will actually pay taxes on the property. Oh and by the way, renovations create jobs too.
“we can remember brooklyns past fine with out them”
-Please keep clinging to weak arguments for your proconstruction stance, I’d love to hear your higher ups use the same argument, they’d get slammed the next dayt in all the papers for saying something so moronic.
Rick
I think the preservation angle is a non-starter, as history fans is a very narrow constituency. DeeDee, the most important consequences of this project continuing as planned is that it is structured so that Ratner will make a ton of money with few risks, while at best, it will take years before the neighborhood sees even small gains, though many believe the net effect (no pun intended) will be none–a few jobs will be created and a few apartments will open up, but it won’t do much for the economy as a whole, especially if people start leaving in droves. Do we want to leave our neighborhood’s livelihood in the hands of a single developer, or can we find alternatives which will spread the risks and rewards?
As for the hotel, the PC Richards/Modell’s site would not only be an aesthetic improvement (likely), but I would imagine economically. Hotels will bring much more foot traffic to the neighborhood, generate even more taxes (that the city can control directly). Unlike an arena, hotel jobs are generally unionized. Ratner already owns the land, so it’s really a matter of zoning, right?
even if you could renovate those buildings they would get a tax abatement. most of the arena development will be housing – low-med income … what higher up are you talking about?
If we listened to Dee Dee, then the INDUSTRIAL area known as SOHO would have been torn down years ago and Dee Dee would have a nice hotel to sleep in instead of a unique 19th. century neighborhood that is thriving.
ratner is helping us by building more housing. i want to live in one of the new buildings. AND I hope he builds a hotel, that would be sweet.
“I think the preservation angle is a non-starter, as history fans is a very narrow constituency”
I think that a very shortsighted view, the nieghborhood already historical walks which showcase various homes, it is also this older scene which give the neighborhood its homely feeling. TRhat is exactly why brooklyn heights took off in teh early hieghts and other neighborhoods in brooklyn have come to follow. To rip through the neighborhood will have an eventual backlash. What will Marty do if people start leaving the neighborhood, the prices will go down and in turn generate less taxes, and Ratner sure wont pay any.
anon:
“even if you could renovate those buildings they would get a tax abatement. most of the arena development will be housing – low-med income … what higher up are you talking about?”
6% low income
24% “moderate income”
half of that 24% will be paying rents that you can find today at any rental agent.
so to me, that looks like 18% truly affordable 82% market and luxury.
its a great scam.
Man, I can see the headlines now:
TOURISM IN BROOKLYN PLUMMETS AFTER WARD BAKING CO. BUILDING IS RAZED
Yes, Marty will be in the news, wringing his hands and expressing regret that he ever let such an historical structure be destroyed. He’ll bemoan the fact that all of the crowds who go see basketball games at the new arena pale in comparison to the hordes who used to flock to Brooklyn to see the Ward Baking Co. building. But I’m sure that the mayor of Newark will be happy, because his city, as the host to a Ward Baking Co.-like building, will gain all of the tourism that Brooklyn lost. But, fear not, for in the end the mayor and Marty will kiss and make up, as they will understand that it was ultimately an even trade-off: Brooklyn gets the basketball team and New Jersey gets the Ward Baking Co. Building groupees.
By the way, I’m noticing a new argument from you stadium opponents. In the past, you were saying that Ratner’s project would overcrowd the neighborhood and facilitate massive gentrification. Now you’re hinting that people will be leaving in droves. Please pick one catastrophe and stick with it.
Jack,
Please understand that you are addressing people of many different opinions. However, I can’t say I disagree, though, with your assertion that the Ward Baking Co. Building isn’t exactly the old Pennsylvania Station. It’s a nice old building that could be made pretty. However, what worked for Soho won’t necessarily work for Brooklyn, and moreover, by playing up the perservation angle, we’ve seen that you piss off a lot of people who don’t have a nice job that’s going to give them the money to enjoy that kind of building.
My point is, beyond any cultural capital these buildings have, the decisions about this building need to be made by the people around it, not by some aloof multimillionaire who thinks he’s Robert Moses. To spell it out: Bruce Ratner wants money, we want a place to live. Rather than giving Bruce Ratner exclusive license to build one monolithic development, that land should be in control of people with an actual stake in the neighborhood. To provide another 1000 units of not very affordable housing is charitable, but there are better ways to help us help ourselves. We need plans that will spread the rewards (and frankly, the risks) and will provide more flexibility for what the future may hold. In that sense, the brownstones of this neighborhood have persevered, while, say, Ebbets Field have not, which is what the preservationists seem to be getting at but aren’t really saying.
So, what is the alternative? I have seen a presentation of the “Unity Plan” and while a nice academic exercise there are no developers who are interested in pursuing this alternative plan. I fear that if the Ratner deal doesn’t go through the railyards will simply sit empty and dilapidated for the next 50 years.
DeeDee,
Your concerns are well-founded. Even if the Ratner plan goes through, the site will still be dilapidated for several years. If your time frame is 50 years, then there’s no need to hand the land over to Ratner so quickly. Moreover, if the real estate bubble bursts, Ratner could run out of money very quickly, and we’ll be back where we started.
The good thing is that the MTA is going to open up the Atlantic Yards to bidding. If you look at what happened with the West Side and you look at what people were able to come up with in such a short timeframe, think of all the ideas we could come up with if we give the process some time. Right now, developers are reluctant to put in bids because they don’t want to appear as if they’re crossing Bloomberg and interfering with the Olympic bid; I think once the 2012 hoopla subsides, sensible heads can prevail.
There will be plenty of devlopers involved, the Yards have only been put up for sale in the last month. You cant rush something like that, the consequences of a bad descision could screw the taxpayers for years, and handing the land over to Ratner tax free is a bad decision. The eventual constuction and buildings will bring jobs naturally over time, preferably something more rewarding than temporary construction, hot dog sales, and ticket swiping, are those the jobs you want?
Jack, you are only responding to one facet of the entire argument and trivializing it. The fact is that there is plenty of land to build new buildings on and renovating the old buildings to new use will still bring jobs and even more specialized construction while still keeping the historical aspect of the area.
And please “the crowds” the Nets will bring? Over the past 5 years averaged the attendace has only barely supassed 75% attendance twice.
There are plenty of legitimate opposing arguments to the Ratner plan: the under-financed MTA ought to sell its land to the highest bidder, not the most well connected bidder; the massive development will likely increase traffic and make the neighborhood noisier and more commercial; eminent domain was designed to be used only for the public good, not to transfer privately owned land to private developers against the will of the current owners; public funds should be used for true public services such as education.
However, let’s be realistic. Most people who are opposed to this plan are, bottom line, anti-development. Even if this deal were financed entirely by Ratner, the same people would be against it. All this talk about greater public discourse is just an excuse for preserving the status quo. Amazingly, no one is concerned about what’s being preserved. There’s a lot of talk about some historic buildings, but I’ve lived in this neighborhood for 30 years, and most of the area to be developed is a horrible eyesore.
Furthermore, counting tax exemptions towards the public “subsidy” is disingenuous. The tax revenue currently being collected from the abandoned railyard is zero, so any development at all would be a net gain. Obviously the more a city can tax its constituents, the more public services it can provide, but if it were that easy we’d all be taxed 100%. The reality is that businesses and developers can choose to go elsewhere, and then you are back to getting zero tax revenue again.
Finally, the cries over “unaffordable housing” are baseless. “Unaffordable housing” is an oximoron; if someone is buying the units, they are by definition not unaffordable–if the price is too high, the seller will lower the price. As someone noted above, if this project raises land value, the brownstone owners in the neighborhood should be in favor; it it lowers value, the housing advocates currently protesting should be thrilled at the glut of cheap housing that’s created. Anyone who has taken high school economics knows that the best way to reduce price is to increase supply; so why are housing advocates protesting the development of more housing? Subsidized or regulated “affordable housing” will ensure that the neighborhood real estate can never appreciate, and will leave only super-expensive units for the very rich and cheap, stagnant units for the poor, with nowhere to go for the middle class.
The kneejerk reaction of, “This project will benefit a rich guy so it must be bad” should be abandoned in favor of rational consideration. Bottom line: the development plan should be improved upon, and ultimately approved.
ESC,
“Most people who are opposed to this plan are, bottom line, anti-development”
-Dead wrong, several people have put forward other plans more aligned with the space available, I have not heard a single person talk against development.
“counting tax exemptions towards the public “subsidy” is disingenuous”
– Wrong, the area is a major thoughway to the biggest growing borough in NYC, any number of companies would be happy to set up shop there now, and in the years to come. Just becasue the area isnt taxed now is a stupid reason to give it up tax free, for the next 99 years no less.
-The tax money proposed to be involved could do much more for affordble housing alone than via Ratners whole plan.
I do have a problem with the Rich guy making a fortune off the deal, only because it illustrates what a losing deal it is for the taxpayers and neighborhood. I also believe there are more important projects to apply tax money to, like schools and subways, something rich people (Bloomberg, Ratner, Markowitz) never have to deal with and seem to forget about.
escap4, while you make very salient points and i appreciate your erudite usage of the word disingenuous, i must put my stake in the ground at your argument that most people who are anti-ratner-plan are anti-development. au contraire, i am a generation Z-type who for the most part does not get an erection from seeing an 1800s-era brownstone in all its’ original crown-molding glory. in fact, i am the owner of a blog, http://ltjbukem.blogspot.com that for the better part of the past year, has been photo-documenting several of the hot, new, over-hyped, over-priced new condominiums in DUMBO, ft. greene and prospect heights (all of which i can’t afford, mind you).
still, i can’t say that i am pro-ratner-plan. i balk at your proclamation that the area is an eyesore. i, for one, sometimes enjoy walking down carlton between atlantic and bergen, and seeing discarded socks, boxers, drug paraphernalia and dead rats. while some may deem it an eyesore, i enjoy it because it harkens back to my earlier years of growing up in the LES and queens. i enjoy the grittiness that it conjures up, possibly so i can convince myself that my life still toes the bohemian past that i used to live, instead of the ultra-yuppified, union-market-shopping, sneaker-boutique-browsing, 180s-sea-island-cotton-dress shirt-purchasing, and san-pellegrino-sparkling-water-drinker-figment-of-a-man that i have now become.
true, i am not a lifelong denizen of the too-hip-for-thou ft greene/prospect heights corridor, of which i’m sure you are. therefore, i obsequiously bow out of this intriguing discourse and allow those who have put in their sweat-equity in the neighborhood and for years have had to deal with a neighborhood that didn’t have a moe’s, a stonehome wine bar, a habana outpost to continue.
NIMBYS UNITE!
ESC: AWESOME POST !!
I would also like to point out that when the nets move to Brooklyn every game will be sold out. Ever been to a Cyclones game? Brooklyn has the most loyal fans on the planet.
” i, for one, sometimes enjoy walking down carlton between atlantic and bergen, and seeing discarded socks, boxers, drug paraphernalia and dead rats. ”
Want to trade apartments?
If there is another good development idea out there that stands a legitimate chance, I’d love to hear it. I agree that a stadium is not the greatest addition to the neighborhood and I could imagine better development plans. But for the thirty years that I have been around, there has been, with the noted exception of some housing construction along the edges of the Atlantic Yards which I was thrilled about, zero development and zero investment. Realistically, killing this plan will mean thirty more years of the same, and that will cost the city far more in unfulfilled tax revenue than any tax breaks for Ratner will.
Marty Markowitz is not “rich people.” He doesn’t even own a house, for chrissake, he’s a renter. He started his career as a tenent lawyer fighting for poor people. And he’s real people. Welcomed us all home as I walked across the Brooklyn Bridge during the blackout.
Ratner’s superblocks suck. And I’ve dealt with FCRC – they’re all scumbag assholes there. They build the ugliest shit in the world. But increasing the population density in and around downtown Brooklyn is the best idea ever. You want something better than affordable housing? Make sure Ratner doesn’t dump Gehry.
—
The voices of opposition to this project have gotten so shrill, they’ve castrated any effective community input. I went to a meeting at the BPL where Dan Goldstein was in the audience, and his grandstanding self-importance prevented other concerned community members from asking our own questions. I think there are no big public meetings going on because you can’t get anything accomplished when a vocal minority refuses to accept the idea of the project to exist. It would be like those “Listening to the City” forums for rebuilding Ground Zero, but one whole section of the room is screaming over every question. How can you improve Ratner’s plan if you refuse to take part in the process?
That’s a classic! You’re blaming Dan Goldstein for the lack of public involvment in Ratners scam? So, if the “voices of opposition” were not “shrill”, say more civilized, like Letitia James, etc, we’d all be giving input, and it would be gladly accepted? Is the opposition hurting poor Marty’s and Bruces feelings by criticizing the fact that they’re fucking Brooklyn and getting rich in the [process at other peoples expense? Thanks for starting my day off with a hearty laugh.
for ESC or whoever said the opposition, bottom line, is “anti-development” uhm…how does the square with this name:
Develop–Don’t Destroy Brooklyn, the name is not
Don’t Develop-Dont’ Destroy Brooklyn. so it doesn’t square.
and for the dude who said I was grandstanding at a BPL meeting.
First off, what is BPL? second, grandstanding? give me a break.
yeah, i just love love love love love working as a volunteer 20 hours a day. I love it, its been my life’s dream to forego an income. thats always been my goal in life.
Speaking one’s mind for what one believes in is not grandstanding, its human. and again, whats the BPL and the idea that I”M shutting out community voices or input, well thats pretty funny.
Maybe BPL is Brooklyn Public Library?
Mr. Anonymous (in this case, the one who mentioned the 75% attendance rate at Nets games),
This is another example of my point. In the past, people have screamed that the arena will bring hordes of drunken, puking neanderthals to the neighborhood, but now someone is hinting that attendance at games will be low? C’mon, folks, make up your minds: either the project will overcrowd the neighborhood or it won’t. Stop picking arguments that suit the moment.
Jack – If the stadium is at half capacity for every game it will be a financial disaster (because it wouldn’t generate enough sales tax revenue) AND a congestion nightmare (even a half-full arena would swarm the neighborhood. And that doesn’t even include all of the people moving in to the huge residential towers. Think it through before you argue that someone is being inconsistent.
If its BPL, i’ve not been there for years. And until the DailyHeights paper is the periodical stacks, i’m not going!
Dan Goldstein: having a name “Develop-Don’t-Destroy” doesn’t make a group (your group?) pro-development. The “Clean Air Act” allowed for more pollution, and the “Healthy Forest Initiative” allowed for more logging. North Korea’s govt being called the “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea” doesn’t make it a democratic people’s republic.
If your group isn’t anti-development, I don’t know what is. Yes, you claim to be just opposed to “over-development” but it’s not clear where that mysterious threshold lies. It’s one thing to oppose a stadium, but you also oppose the expansion of Columbia University and the construction of housing!! Yes, it’s one of the world’s finest centers of learning but it’s “divisive to the community.” Yes, tons of housing will be built but it “won’t fit the aesthetics of the neighborhood.” There’s always some excuse.
In fact, the only development your group seems to be in favor of is public development: infrastructure, etc. That’s great, and more than welcome, but one wonders where the city supposed to get all this money, when all private development is stifled and all investors and corporations are labeled as evil and chased out of town….
ESC, huh? we are pro-development. No, not like labor unions who’d build anything as long as is provides jobs. Where does over-development start? I’d say adding 20,000 arena visitors and 15k new residents in a 5 block area is a good start to describe over-development. We’re not Karl Rove. or Kim Jung Il.
You’ll see and hear what you want to see and hear. thats your choice. but you want to call us anti-development, well thats your choice too, your choice to lie and deliberately so.
As for Columbia’s expansion. Columbia has always shit on the residents of the area. And this new expansion plan is another abusive use of eminent domain, and the idea of building a bio-terror lab next to and under a dense residential area, well that something none of us should accept.
We don’t oppose the construction of housing. We oppose an obscenely wasteful use of public money for market/luxury/arena construction. Unfortantely, those who support this project have tied the affordable, out of scale housing to public money for market/luxury/arena. why? i don’t know, other than that groups like ACORN have signed contractually to support and promote the project, thus making it impossible for them to critique any of its problems, which I’m sure they are aware of, and thus making them a mouthpiece for the developer while they pretend to speak for the community. how can they do both?